Test results are generally given in terms of expanded diameter, penetration depth, and weight retention. [14] Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Ive seen enough well-practiced shooters fail in a simulator to validate this (at least for me). In 2007 Winchester updated their Ranger SXT line and renamed it Ranger T-Series. 357 black talon ammo for sale on GunsAmerica. Buy a 357 blac Yes there are a whole lot of new gun owners since 2019. Can you guess what it is? On impact, the material is forced into engineered internal fissures to start the expansion process. But, more recent, more modern and better designs are now widely available. It is a very devastating looking wound channel. 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996). Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision, though he was still able to fight with his Smith & Wesson Model 36 backup gun. For collecting, it might be alright. No, Im not talking about a 3 letter agency either. Winchester repackaged and renamed the round throughout the years. Black Talon can comfortably replace Izanagi in Night Falls. Thankfully, the Tireless Blade trait makes powered sword kills grant you sword ammo. .357 Mag 180gr Winchester Black Talons | Defensive Carry We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. I missed a lot in the 90s. Religious experts also commented that many of the claims that Jihawg made were false and that it is not a transgression if a Muslim isforced to eat or touch pork. Required fields are marked *, Stay up to date with all things RE Factor Tactical with updates sent directly to your inbox, Why The FBI Requested Better Duty Ammunition, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $31.77/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $31.53/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $34.99/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $30.88/box, REMINGTON AMMO 9mm Golden Saber Bonded BJHP Bonded 124Gr, HORNADY 9mm +P Luger 124 gr FlexLock Critical Duty, FEDERAL AMMO 9mm + P 124Gr HST JHP Premium, HORNADY CRITICAL DUTY 9MM +P 135 GRAIN FLEXLOCK DUTY, https://www.amazon.com/shop/refactortactical, Battle of the Barrels: Faxon vs Ballistic Advantage, Spotting Scope vs Binoculars: Choosing The Right Glass, Faxon Glock 48 Barrels: Are They Worth the Investment? . Black Talon, though innovative and groundbreaking back in the day, is nearly 25 years old. So, stop giving them ammo! [15] It is similar to the Ranger SXT series and the older Black Talon design in its structure, and is available in several calibers and loadings. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. It was captained by Revinal Orzik. Black Talon, a type of expanding, hollow-point ammunition also vilified in the early 1990s as "cop-killer bullets". Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the Black Talons demise. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. I shot a male approx. Having been in several shootings the defender should expect more than zero penetration on a K5 40 caliber hit. The 5 Most Controversial Handgun Rounds | OutdoorHub How many times have you heard about the last round youll ever need? Or how about guaranteed stopping power? Its a given that ammunition manufacturers want to make the best, most efficient product possibleand that basically means that the more lethal the round, the better it is. Grogan, however, is credited with landing the first hit of the gunfight, wounding Matix in the forearm as he leaned out of the Monte Carlo to fire the shotgun at Grogan and Dove. Legend has it that some surgeons found the sharp edges of the claws created a job hazard for them when they would probe a wound and tear open their rubber gloves on the sharp points. At no point was the round ever prohibited by United States law. Matix was then shot in the right forearm, probably by Grogan. I once worked at a large LEO pistol & rifle range for several years. 223 rounds. Winchester Black Talon 44 Magnum Small Display Block The Black Talon handgun bullet (from the resemblance of the opened segments to the talons or claws of a bird of prey) is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. In 1996 a lawsuit was subsequently filed by one of the victim's family members (McCarthy v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. Previously only offered to law enforcement, Speer Gold Dot G2 offers the ultimate performance for self-defense thanks to an exclusive nose design. 24 years ago, Black Talon ammo hit the dealers shelves with a advertising blitz on the part of Winchester. Winchester Black Talons The handgun ammo that was just "too good" to Those are decent rounds as well, I wish I kept the boxes as I have seen them on eBay fetching a pretty good price.just for the box! A 5 1911 gave the most impressive-looking bullet expansion Ive ever seen. The larger the wound channel the more likely the threat will drop quicker. John; Plus I saw rounds that had been recovered from a number of officer involved shootings. SIG's standout defensive handgun load is the Elite Performance blend with V-Crown bullet, available in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, as well as others. Black Talons | USA Carry - Concealed Carry Forum Edmundo Mireles: Remington M870 12-gauge shotgun, five rounds 00 buckshot fired, .357 Magnum revolver, Smith & Wesson Model 686 (despite not being FBI-issue), six rounds .38 Special +P fired. @ CTD Suzanne: As a Federal LEA I know quite well the 1986 Miami scenario and its ramifications towards the major changes it brought in all law enforcement and the overall industry at a National perspective. Similar to the Black Talon, G2 courted controversyby designing a hollow point round that sent out eight sharp trocars upon expansion, allegedly inflicting much more damage than a conventional hollow point. Everytime a Good Guy with a Gun does the right thing, the media never mentions it. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. Im still missing one round. Thats right, these bullets are infused with pork for an extra deterrent factor of eternal damnation for fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist.. As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Doves 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. Due to all of the controversy, the Black Talon has now become a notorious legend of almost mythical proportions. He reportedly loaded his handgun with Black Talon rounds. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. That D.A. There are still places, like New Jersey, where the ownership of hollow points isrestricted. While standing in the courtroom trying to plead Self-Defense when a sharp anti-gun D.A. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge. On impact, the Black Talon bullet expands and peels back, exposing sharp, curling metal talons that can strike more organs and arteries in the body. Winchester pulled it in 1993 and permanently discontinued the ammo in 2000. They tend to kinda lose interest in doing anything else than try to breath after that. [2] The bullet included a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process. Mostly because they are 25 years old and other companies are reproducing them under different name for as low as $18. After all, it is nothing more than slightly modernized Black Talon ammo, but with a market friendly sounding name. The Ranger SXT is the same bullet without the Lubalox coating. By admin | January 9, 2023 | 32. While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. Today, Black Talon bullets are no longer manufactured or sold by Winchester, but similar types of hollow-point bullets are still widely available and legal for civilian use in the United States. a full box of the original black talon This ammo was not only controversial, some called it downright offensive. In the end, Winchester decided to discontinue the pistol caliber line in 1993, and the entire line completely in 2000. Thus If you have among the last boxes manufactured. I went to carrying a 40 cal Sig plus a backup and even 2 shotguns in my unit. Glock 26 Hornady Critical Defense / Gold dot 115 gr / Barnes TAC 115 +P They make and sell 9mm ammunition and plenty of other calibers. On the other hand, using the bullets that the FBI uses becomes a prudent choice and a case that the D.A. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it expands to what looks like a flower with petals. You can use it in melee, like a normal sword, but you can also shoot void projectiles. Of course, with a normal round, a Teflon-coated bullet has no advantages overa conventional bullet when striking a protective vest. In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. Black Talon | Wookieepedia | Fandom My love of sharp things extends to all kinds of edged weapons, be they small, large or on a stick. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck. In todays offerings, I feel that the most important thing is guaranteed quick expansion, because the FPS on pistols is nowhere near a rifle. Past works have been authored to cover only the major talking points in your article, and were forced to do so only as distinctly separate stories due to the sheer volume of information involved; however, you managed to blend the entire history of each topic into one very well written article that is somehow brief, yet able to maintain excellent continuity without missing any of the most important facts. I know that Underwood Ammo sells some pretty nasty rounds called Controlled Fracture rounds. I met Mr. Mireles after his recovery. 20 SUPREME CENTERFIRE PISTOL-REVOLVER CARTRIDGES in each box.All boxes are in excellent shape nearly factory fresh . I choose to carry Critical Duty in my G23 & 27. Winchester 9mm 147gr Black Talon in Clear Ballistics gel. - AR-15 Reply Save Like RecPak is a meal replacement for the outdoors that saves you weight, space and time in the most challenging environments, just add water. For more serious uses, I would buy more recent ammo. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. The Black Talons petals look more like well talons, essentially making the wound channel even wider. Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the demise of Winchester Black Talon ammunition. I have 2 full boxes that I would gladly sell. Please be respectful of others. Buy a 357 black talon ammo online. The claims against Olin were dismissed because it was held that the plaintiff could not prevail because there were no defects in manufacturing, design, or in warnings the bullets "functioned exactly as designed".[11]. Black Talon is a brand of hollow point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details Winchester Ranger .45 ACP is one of the most in demand .45 rounds on the market- and for good reason. Now additional rounds that struck muscle tissue did major tissue destruction and one in the arm shattered the bone and almost severed the arm ending the battle and even that round failed to exit. But try a self-defense plea with cop killer bullets. Wish I could write this well! Black Talon and Today's Best Self-Defense Ammo Barrett products are used by civilians, sport shooters, law enforcement agencies, the United States military, and more than 75 State Department-approved countries around the world. This "reverse taper" refers to the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than toward the base, enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead mushroom. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. However, there are differences in the anatomy of the bullets which become apparent when carefully examined side by side. In March 2014, The Guardian newspaper reported that South African paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius had shot to death his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day the previous year with four Black Talons fired from a 9mm pistol. If you want either round, SGAmmo has plenty at decent prices. boxes. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. Barrett is the world leader in long-range, large-caliber, precision rifle design and manufacturing. But now the hysteria is .223 fragmenting into a bunch of tiny pieces. Thanks Suzanne. Unfortunately, Winchester stopped producing Black Talon ammunition in 2000, which only fed into its mystique. Killed after being shot six times. Instead of a large hollow-point cavity, Gold Dot G2 has a shallow dish filled with a high-performance elastomer. The second hit the drivers side window post and fragmented, with one small piece hitting Platt in the scalp. Supposedly, he loaded his handgun with Black Talon. You are 100% correct, that expansion is nice in preventing over penetration, but it is correct penetration that wins the fight. The FBI agents had loaded jacketed hollow point bullets into their firearms. Yes, 2000 ft per second and they ship the ammunition to your door. A surgeon in Houston said Black Talon rounds "explode inside a person like a thousand razor blades.". [17] As Platt entered Grogan and Doves car, Mireles, able to use only one arm, fired the first of five rounds from his pump-action shotgun, wounding Platt in both feet. This expansion creates a larger wound channel. I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. I bought them before they were not so infamous. *Lighting a path to truth* Former Navy JAG Worldwide U.S. Military Defense. The wound was not serious. On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bank robbers bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. A great go-to self-defense round in any caliber is the Speer Gold Dot. The round is a traditional hollow point design, but with a reverse taper. I am also well versed in the Black Talon and its complete run in history to the point that I own some for posterity sake. [9], Manauzzi was wounded when Platt fired several rounds from his Ruger Mini-14 rifle that penetrated the door of Manauzzis car. Hollow-point bullet - Wikipedia [10] McNeill returned fire with six shots from his revolver, hitting Matix with two rounds in the head and neck. And 9mm blowing lungs out. Thank you for your service! Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. I had the chance to see countless 1,000s of spent rounds in all calibers & brands carried by LEOs. Heres why. 20rds - 45 ACP Winchester Black Talon 230gr. HP Ammo - AmmunitionToGo.com Where the Gage-class did resemble its cousin, however, was its heavy armor--the . And no, these rounds were not armor-piercing, despite what urban legend says. 200 lbs. A civilian witness described Platt leaving the car, walking almost 20 feet and firing at Mireles three times at close range. You must become a subscriber or login to view or post comments on this article. *Editors note: The source has chosen to remain anonymousdue to the sensitive nature of their work. The result is extremely uniform expansion, better separation of the petals, and more consistent penetration across barrier types through full-size handguns. However, not many would recommend spending the money unless you are a collector or a sucker for nostalgia. I really like Hornady ammunition but like several that I know along with others that have commented having the same results with Hornady Critical Duty/Defense not expanding as it should, have switched to Federal HST rounds for EDC. The Black Talon was a "HollowPoint" and expanded upon impacts. You may have heard that it was produced with a Teflon coating but in all actuality, it was a special round coating focused on preserving barrel life. Nowadays, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive handgun round. I even had one work OK from a 2.5 bbl. 10 Great Defense Loads - American Handgunner Anything that we do that appears to be overboard just gives the antis one more bullet to use against US! We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. 4-6 diameter wound cavity about 10 long. The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. S&W 637 Remington 158 gr LHP +P / Gold dot 125 +P If you were wearing a protective vest the best bullet you want to hit by is an expanding bullet so the material in the vest absorbs the energy. Be sure to follow us onFacebook,Instagram, andLinkedInfor exclusive content and deals. Introduced at the 1991 SHOT Show, Winchesters Black Talon was the ammo companys answer for a more effective self-defense bullet demanded by the FBI following the 1986 Miami Firefight. I remember when we moved from 38 to 9mm then 40 caliber everything revolved around this in round choice then the old group so wrapped up in collateral damage from over penetration that we always wound up with under powered ammo such as the Black Talon later renamed Ranger I guess. The black appearance was due to the oxidized copper jacket. Mireles does not remember this happening. Yes. Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head. Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6]. When the Black Talon expanded, it resembled talons, essentially creating a massive wound channel. PDX-1 looks the same on expansion as the BT, except now the claws are filled in with lead because PDX-1 is a bonded bullet, which is a superior design to the non-bonded BT. While the suspect was wearing only a T shirt the round penetrated the sternum and failed to enter into the vital organs. The incident lasted under five minutes yet approximately 145 shots were exchanged. Additionally, the FlexLock core eliminates clogging, improves bullet expansion, and maximizes weight retention in regard to terminal ballistics. Time Magazine described the Black Talon rounds as a bullet "designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces." Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound. They make them in many different calibers and seeing what they do in a block of gel is amazing. How rare is this 9mm Black Talon? I was given this box by my - Reddit They actually became friends in the Army. The alleged armor-piercing (AP) notion is urban legend, and was a result of media hyperbole (perhaps confusing "Talon" with the "Teflon" that coated KTW AP bullets[citation needed])rather than test or field data from actual shootings considering the short time it was on the market. What is the value of Black Talon ammo? | Glock Talk If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. Remington will never tell you this, but those in the know say Remingtons Golden Saber has petals designed to expand the same way as Black Talon. Support Veteran Journalism . Were either Platt or Matix ex-military? The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper" design pioneered by the Black Talon was retained. This ammo has not been manufactured for many years. This wound caused Platt to drop his revolver. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. Manufacturer. I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P. Shooters tend to drift toward shot placement and wound channel specs in defensive shooting. In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. Several years ago, SIG Sauer started expanding its market share into electro-optics and ammunition. 0. I believe that strong 10mm ammo (not the watered down stuff) can solve this problem. Nevertheless, Winchester still buckled to the pressure and in 2000 discontinued the Black Talon, albeit in name only. Our Honest Review, How To Buy Guns Online: Armslist Firearms Marketplace, Best EDC Medical Kit Buyers Guide [2023], Best 9mm Competition Pistol: Faxon FX19 Hellfire. +p+ was definitly the right direction. [8] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. Even now, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive round and search for its modern day equivalent. If so how much do you want for them? This enhances rigidity which allows the sharp "talons" to remain perpendicular to the wound path. The .40 S&W PDX1 cartridge is available for purchase by civilian shooters and was the primary service ammunition of the FBI until 2017 when they switched to the Hornady Critical Duty line.[16][17]. Benjamin Grogan: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, nine rounds fired. My hat is off to you. 2023 The SOFREP Media Group. Col Leonard J. Supenski of the Baltimore County police department said "It has the stopping power that police officers need and it is less likely to ricochet or go through the bad guy,"[2] something that could be said of any reliably expanding hollow-point. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition I carry a descendant of the Black Talon, Q4364. He thought our use of Ranger But the Kahr works best with the 200-grain Gold Dot; an ideal load for that gun. John Hall, the FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy "an ammo failure". [7][8][9] Some medical personnel were concerned that the sharp barb-like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection,[2] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening. If the round carries enough energy into the hit area (say, the lower side torso for example) the vascular system will experience massive compression leading to burst blood vessels in the brain. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. On internet forums, gun enthusiasts frequently joke that that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing",[13] though the official branding is Supreme eXpansion Technology. With robust designs and vintage classic style, discover the heritage of military timepieces today! to work with. . "The Best Damn Gunshop in the World" 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063 BROWSE OUR New Arrivals! Michael Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington with folding stock, at least 42 rounds fired, S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired, Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired. They never worry about what holster to buy as they have no intention of ever carrying that thing. It is as if they are just going through the motions, putting a check in a box on some fanciful list somewhere: Go to the store and get bread, eggs, paint the garage, buy a gun, wash the car . I listened to a career paramedic say If someone must be shot, shoot them a lot, because the human body can endure a great deal of damage and remain in the fight You sir, have experienced that first hand! 's blog. [21] However, it is known for certain that Platt pulled Matixs Dan Wesson revolver at some point and fired three rounds. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. If you dont think hollow points are controversial, just talk to someone who doesnt know what they are. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. The Black Talon exotic sword is still a beast in Destiny 2. [11] McNeill was then shot in the hand and, due to his wound and blood in his revolvers chambers, could not reload.[8]. This is unlike traditional hollow point designs where the expanding jacket petals peel back almost completely behind the expanded mushroom shape. Yeah, we cannot divulge that information publically. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use.